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Extract from an Interview by Thomaxe Goze

I believe you were a Dolls fan, how did it feel to perform with Johnny and
Jerry? 

Yes, I was a fan of the Dolls and Johnny and Jerry. I had known Johnny for
years in and around NYC but just by sight - I never really spoke with him. I
used to see him at all the concerts I went to because he would always have
the best rock 'n roll clothes. He stood out in the crowd. He had money to
buy all these expensive english rock clothes that I could barely afford at
the time. How he got his money is another story. Playing the first gig with
the Heartbreakers was fantastic because there was such a mob of screaming
people there to see us. Before, all my gigs were never that crowded and
people liked the bands but never went crazy like that first time we took the
stage at CBGB's in July 1975 for the weekend festival.

What was your friendship with Johnny and Jerry like?   

I'm not sure if you could call it a friendship exactly. We definitely hung
out together over the years and would go over to one another's apartments
from time to time but it was more of a working relationship. We mostly saw
each other when we were working - playing music or recording or various
music industry events. Concerts, shows, etc. Johnny was always all over the
place usually looking for something illegal but also running around with
lots of different people. Many people wanted to manage John or control him
and he usually used them for whatever they could give him and then moved on
to the next "friend". John would also get lots of ideas for new songs and
wrote a lot of stuff. He actually recorded quite a bit of material over the
years but he was hard to pin down for any length of time to really complete
a project. The money would run out or the people would burn out etc.
Jerry was a little more down to earth but he also had big mood swings - one
day he was your friend and the next he wouldn't talk to you. I suppose drugs
had a lot to do with it but he was also a volatile person. In the early days
he was the one with the most creative ideas about clothes and image for the
band. He would write songs or pieces of songs that were really good but also
had trouble finishing projects - that's why we became a songwriting team. I
would finish the ideas that he would come up with - mostly lyrics and stuff.
John had a few friends that stuck with him over the years but he usually
ended up getting everyone mad at him at some point. Jerry was the same way
to a lesser degree. Jerry also was good to have around in a band because he
could control Johnny to some extent. John sort of respected him and looked
up to him, especially because Jerry could beat him up in a fight.


When was the last gig you played with the Heartbreakers? how did it feel?   

The last gig we did was the reunion at the Marquee Club in NYC. I think it
was in November 1990. It was a big club and was packed to the rafters. The
show was great fun and I had a great time. The rehearsals before it were a
bit sad because John was still screwed up on drugs and the rest of us were
over all that. ( We had Tony Coiro on bass, not Billy Rath) He'd show up
late and would disappear every half hour for 15 minutes. But typically
Johnny was in good form for the show no matter how much stuff he had taken
so everything came off good. I didn't think it would be the last HB gig
because it was a great way to get some quick cash and we all always needed
that. But what we all had feared for years finally happened. He would be
dead by the next April.

When was the last time you saw Johnny?  

I think the last time I saw John was at a Waldos gig in the month before he
died. I have a tape that says March 1991 at Continental and John came up on
stage and sang a few songs with us. We'd always invite him up when he showed
up at gigs but usually we'd like the guests to show up at the end of the set
so it looks like a grand finale. John would deliberately jump on stage 2 or
3 songs into the set and the audience would go crazy so we couldn't kick him
off. He'd play a few songs and then leave so it was sort of a let down to
finish the set normally. But this was typical Johnny antics. This was in
early March and by late April he was dead.

And Jerry?  

The last time I saw Jerry, he was lying in a hospital bed in a coma. It was
probably 2 weeks before he died. He had been admitted to the hospital a
month or 2 earlier for Meningitis, a type of fever of the brain. He
apparently suffered a few strokes while he was being treated for it and
never came out of his coma after a few weeks. I forget exactly what time of
the year it was but I think it was 1992 - about a year after John died. The
last time I remember seeing him alive was at the Johnny T. benefit concert
that was held at the Marquee Club, the same place as the Reunion gig, a few
months after John died. He seemed ok at the time and was staying with his
girlfriend Phyllis. I think he was involved in a few musical projects with
different people, a few of which I met years later

-
You have a solo album out with the Waldos, when/how did you start that band?

I started the Waldos in the mid- 1980's. I'd had a few bands like the Heroes
and Hurricanes but nothing much was happening so a drummer friend of mine,
Charlie Sox, said why not start a new one. I said OK and called it The
Waldos which was a nickname given to me by a French punk fanzine back in the
Heartbreaker days. I think they thought it was my real name but it sounded
funny so I kept using it. We grabbed a guitar player I knew and a bass
player and started rehearsing. The bass guy left 6 months later so I got
Tony and The guitar guy left a year or so after that so we picked up Joey
Pinter. Charlie the drummer died in 1993 and then we got Jeff West and did
the CD in 1993 - 1994. The lineup has changed several times after that due
to more deaths. I think the Grim Reaper follows me around a lot because so
many people I have played with have died over the years.


Did you ever think that the Heartbreakers, and yourself as a
guitarist/songwriter/vocalist, would reach the legendary status that you
reached? How do you feel about it?

I never really felt that The Heartbreakers or myself had achieved
"legendary" status. We had our day in the sun and it was great fun while it
lasted but we were never that productive and internal stresses along with
self-destructive urges broke up the band much earlier than we should have.
This is not a new story - it's been played out by hundreds of bands on all
levels of success. I do think that the band at it's peak was one of the best
rock n roll bands around and that John and Jerry were unique musicians that
nobody else could come close to imitating. John's guitar sound was totally
unique to himself and I've never seen anyone replicate it. He wasn't
technically adept but had a natural sound that only he could make - he did
more with less that any other guitarist I've ever heard. Jerry was a natural
as well. He never practiced but always came up with the perfect beat to any
song.


If you had to give a list of your 3 favorite punk rockers of the NY scene
of the 70's, who would you choose?  

This question is not easy. I had lots of personal friends that I hung out
with but their bands weren't my favorites and lots of bands I liked but I
didn't associate with the members. You could say among my favorites were The
Ramones, Talking heads, Mink De Ville, Lydia Lunch and several others who I
can't remember at the moment. I ended up liking the British bands more
because we had the most excitement over there. Among them, I always liked
The Sex Pistols the most and after that, Siouxie & the Banshees, Xray spex,
Clash, Damned, Billy Idol, Adam Ant, Models, Eater , Buzzcocks and endless
others. I couldn't pick out individuals for favorites - there were too many
of them to remember and some were personal favorites, others were musical
favorites.


Do you ever think about how -up to these days- there are a thousand kids
out there who picked up a guitar after listening to your music. How do you
feel about that achievement?  

It's sort of gratifying that some people from time to time come up and say
they were inspired by my music to start playing themselves or get into music
in general. It's pretty much the same way I started - you hear something you
like and want to find out more about it or want to hear more of it. One
thing leads to another and your making your own noise after awhile - if
someone likes it then the whole cycle starts over again. I don't know that
thousands of kids have picked up guitars after hearing me or us - maybe they
picked it up to smash the CD player! I guess it is an achievement of sorts -
to be able to influence people and inspire them - as long as they focus on
the music and not the lifestyle.


-

January 2006,

RIP Johnny Thunders, Jerry Nolan, Dee Dee Ramone.