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BLACK SUN

Hi Russell, how's life with you and Black Sun at the moment?
Hi Lisa, life is pretty good at the moment. I like being busy and Black Sun are very busy. We’re currently demoing the songs for the new album and this time Kevin Hare (Guitar and Vocals) is at the helm. Up until recently I was heavily involved in recording and mixing Black Sun until we felt it was time to get another opinion in the form of James Plotkin (Khanate/KKNull/Khlyst et. al.), Billy Anderson(Swans/Melvins/Neurosis etc.) and Duncan Cameron (LLCoolJ – no joke!). We’re still the core group of Graeme Leggate (Bass Guitar), Kevin and myself on Vocals and Drums. Since the ‘Paralyser’ vinyl release on At War With False Noise we’ve had John Cromar of Noma for keyboards and drones. The recording process is doing well and we’re really pleased with how the material is sounding. We’ve been writing for a longer period since ‘Hour of the Wolf’ and there is definite development in the songs. I think it’s important to feel progression in your music in order to keep challenging yourself.

We’re gearing up for a string of interesting dates most notably inviting pummelling doomsters Unearthly Trance from New York and London’s psychedelic sludgemeisters Ramesses to Glasgow on 17th April ’09 at the 13th Note and taking the whole shebang to London Underworld on 19th April ’09. We then travel to the Roadburn Festival in Tilburg Holland where we’re playing with the likes of Neurosis, Amon Duul II, and St Vitus. We are also currently collaborating with Eugene Robinson of Oxbow both for the new Black Sun album and we will perform the song live with him onstage.

In May ’09 you can catch Black Sun in Glasgow at the Hinterland Festival with a mix of avant, indie and heavy bands. Black Sun plays the Rock‐A‐Rolla magazine stage. We play the UK Deathfest in Leeds with the likes of Vader and Repulsion. My twisted harsh noise side‐project Atomized with Lea Cummings of Kylie Minoise have just released our first album of raped ‘Hits of the 80’s’ on Lea’s Kovoroxsound Label and we recently debuted at Glasgow Implodes 4 festival. We have been invited to appear at the Mach Nausea 2009 Festival in Edinburgh in July ’09 then travel to the Supersonic Festival 2009 Birmingham UK where Atomized and Kylie Minoise play with Corrupted (!), Thorr’s Hammer & Head of David and many more. I will also be playing onstage with one of my all time favourites Jarboe of Swans in interpretations of her current album ‘Mahakali’.

Tell us a bit about the band, your history, ideology and where the name comes from?
I formed the earliest version of Black Sun (Machine) as a solo sample based project ten years ago. I then recruited Kevin Hare for some guitar. It was hiring Graeme Leggate for bass guitar that drove me back to the kit and created the seeds of the Black Sun sound today. The three of us are the burning core of Black Sun. We use the occasional collaborator but always seem to return to the threepiece again. The only ideology we adhere to is exploration of our sound. We write sections of songs and bring them to the practice room to be played and played and played. Just to see how they survive. We pummel them into the ground and anything shaky or otherwise does not make the cut. The gauge we use is how excited we are about playing any given song. The concept of a Black Sun is ancient and widespread; if you worship that glowing ball in the sky then it fits that it’s reverse would be a Black Sun. The direct reference I used was the biography “Black Sun: The Brief Transit and Violent Eclipse of Harry Crosby” by Geoffrey 2 Wolff about the poet and heir of one of the richest banking families in New England and his dramatic self destruction. I found it in the Govanhill Library in Glasgow. Those two words ‘Black’ and ‘Sun’ are now tattooed upon my very soul. There is a weight to the band’s name that presses upon us and unifies us. There is only Black Sun.

Can you give us an insight into the equipment you use to create your sound?
For the ‘Code Black’ split 7” single with They Are Cowards (Manchester UK) I used Mapex Black Panther snare, Pearl Thunderhead single kick pedal, and Pearl Export vintage 3‐piece kit. Ashdown bass amplification and Graeme’s own selfstyled ‘Sunsonic Boomstick’ and TripleXXX guitar amplification for Kevin. The key to our sound is to play loud. Play the drums heavy and turn up the guitars. The more air you can shift the better the experience.

What event or idea triggered your desire to release music?
Adam and the Ants: I played in Scottish Pipe Bands since I was a kid and we in the drum corps used to play along to ‘Antmusic’ and ‘Dog Eat Dog’. It got me into the tribal style I love to employ to this very day. I recently re‐discovered the Ants again and fell for them like it was the first time. I then moved through darker musics such as Joy Division. You have to recall what was available to a kid in Falkirk on the radio and tv at the time and there was lots of melancholy pop Music. I had an influential high school art teacher who planted the seeds of exploration of music. I love when you discover some new band, find all their releases then make inroads to their influences.

At first when I’d spent all my money on a new cassette I’d hold it in my hands and it would be a complete mystery as to how it all came together. I joined local bands in Falkirk and played anything with anyone just to be playing. As well as the pipe bands I’ve been touring since an early age. I have to say that I am as excited about playing live now as I was then. It is the live performance that interests us most in Black Sun. All the releases and merchandise is our vehicle towards playing more and wider afield. I like to think that we are communicating further with every show we play and we are connecting deeper with our audience and friends. I like a band to engage me as intensely as they can and for their stage presence to be as dynamic as possible.

Most of your songs are slow and dirgelike, yet tracks like "Red Rain" and "Code Black" have a definite groove and catchy rhythm to them. Was there any decision to make these tracks intentionally different in their approach or did the band just fancy a change?
In the case of ‘Red Rain’ and ‘Code Black’ I already had a lot of the lyrical structure in place and I could play a primitive version of the riff on bass. The songs come out the way they come out. We just make sure we’re practicing regularly enough to be in the room when they do. Even the slow songs have to have flow and groove for us. The further music travels away from being able to dance and move to it the further it is from its roots. I’m a big fan of the Alan Lomax ‘Prison Work Songs’ and call and response song structures in general. They are some of the roots of blues, rock and roll, rock, metal and the fucked up genre we currently occupy too.

What about new material? How do you conceive of a song: do you start with a riff, an abstract idea, an emotion, or a structure?
We look for a memorable hook in what we’re doing whether it be lyrical, rhythm, riff or bassline. We tend to explore it for a while to feel that we have taken it to a conclusion that we’re happy with and any recordings we’ve released are probably a snapshot of where we were at that time. Otherwise we would just keep on playing the song and changing it slightly. I’ve never been able to write a complete set of lyrics in one go. I tend to keep notes and build on them as the music is developing too. Kevin’s lyrics have developed a fair bit over the last few years and his vocal style has expanded from the whiteout scream to making himself heard. Our lyrics are themed with each other although we write the words separately. Being a three‐piece means that there is always some doubling up of vocal duties with your instrument and that is always fun for us to multitask. Sometimes your brain melts at the vocal/rhythm polyphony and dribbles out your ear.

What is the hardest part of songwriting?
Black Sun just play. Play and play. It’s important not to lose that sonic innocence and exploration like when we were kids. Drop what you think is cool or the song ‘should’ sound like and do it. Drop everything. Therefore the hardest part is disengaging your adult mind.

Who would you say has been a major influence on your sound from both a musical and nonmusical perspective?
I find American writer Cormac McCarthy’s jaw dropping ‘Blood Meridian’, ‘Suttree’, ‘The Road’ and ‘No Country for Old Men’. I love the inevitability and single mindedness of his characters and their survival, destruction, and the beautiful emptiness of his locations. Dennis Cooper’s ‘Period’ was a real influence for me in the bleak nothingness of his characters and their language yet he is a modern poet. I hate poetry normally. I prefer songs.

Do you see yourselves as expressing the ideas of your environment, or reacting to those ideas?
Where I grew up in Falkirk was incredibly industrial and nearly all the men in my family worked for the petroleum and plastics companies in Grangemouth. I played with Test Dept for a few big projects so when I hear of the industrial influences in Black Sun that’s what I think about. Not laptop industrial. It’s difficult to separate yourself from your surroundings. My home environment as a kid was very toxic indeed. My father was a violent drunk. Music was my refuge both in my room and getting out with the bands to practice and gigs. Some of the lyrics to my favourite songs are like prayers or mantras. I would just keep them rolling in my head despite what was going down at home. I can listen to a song almost fifty times in a row because I love to occupy that emotion and stretch it out for much much longer than a song can give. Getting stuck on a loop like that is also an indication for me that I am becoming depressed. I then engage in a personal battle against the inner and outer dark towards the return of the light of morning. I prefer to rage against these destructive feelings in Black Sun songs.The only problem being that sometimes I tap into exactly the same impulse onstage as the original experience and I can’t separate them.

Are lyrics important to the band and who writes them/what subjects do they cover?
The lyrics come from personal and domestic sources generalized and repeated sometimes to lose their destructive power. Like gazing at yourself in a mirror and beginning to look like a stranger. You don’t want to be the subject of a Black Sun song. You’ll know you have veered from the path of righteousness if you are in one. The sound of the words should echo the other instruments and rhythm.You learn what works for you over time. I think my lyrics are definitely meant to be heard and understood and Kevin’s were textural in the beginning. Nowadays Kevin is much clearer in what he wants to say.

How do you see your own position within the music industry?
Because metal has changed and developed so much over it’s history it never becomes stale. It re‐invents itself and keeps pace with what society deserves. If it’s lucky new generations of kids also look back to it’s roots and keep it vibrant. Black Sun can play with a huge range of bands from many genres in Black metal, Death metal, and Grindcore as well as harsh noise which many see as a relative to Black and Grind. We tend to share a similar intensity with many of the bands we play with. Our position is being increasingly recognised as time progresses and it’s great to be asked to play wider.

The band's logo looks similar to a Swastika. Is this intentional? What does the symbol signify, if anything?
The Wolfsangel is a much‐maligned ancient Germanic symbol often confused with being a rune, which it’s not. Originally the ‘wolf’s hook’ was used to hang dead wolves on at the outskirts of the village as a warning to other wolves. I used the image of the Christ on the cover of ‘Paralyser’ to make the connection to the wolf’s hook and crucifixion. Any subversion must be publicly and brutally dealt with. Also our St Andrews Cross on the Saltire being a similar symbol of torture and martyrdom. I find it interesting how much pain and painful imagery occupies our society and religion yet God is love.

If I could give a one word description of your music I would choose the word 'heavy'. How important is heaviness and intensity for you in experiencing and writing music?
It’s the physicality of the sound that we’re going for in Black Sun. It’s primal and should hit you in the gut. Your body should listen to Black Sun and be moved by it. That’s why I love deep toms to link in with Graeme’s bass and Kevin’s downtuned guitar. We have a lot in common with Dub reggae in that respect. Black Sun play with your breathing and internal rhythms and get a lot of energy in return from our fans. We practice at gig levels in order to get a grip on the intensity required for the show.

Do you have any personal ideologies? Do these inform your approach to your music? Do they provide groundwork for the content of your music?
I’m interested in phrases such as ‘the war against terror’ and the level of protection and personal invasion governments are employing supposedly for our benefit. Today the police are looking more and more like the “Urban Street Soldiers” Henry Rollins describes himself as in ‘Bad Boys 2’. I find the image of riot police very striking indeed and if you want a disturbance get the riot police in. Not the other way round. There seems to be an engendered sense of fear in society that is being manipulated by government for its own end. Therefore we have talk of more ID cards and registration of all our activities. My point being there is no Big Brother. No‐one can look out for you except yourself and you should take responsibility for yourself.

Where would you say the band's strength lies?
Black Sun’s strength is in our unity as individuals able to predict what each other is going to play on an instinctive level. We have perhaps the strongest possible connection.

The Swans influence is quite apparent in most of the band's musical output but it would seem that the stark art direction takes more than a few cues from them as well. Care to comment?
Swans are dead, long live the Swans. It’s only me who listens to Swans. Everything in Black Sun is discussed collaboratively and the initial layout for much of ‘Paralyser’ was Graeme’s idea. People assume that Black Sun is a dictatorship and I control all aspects of the band and it’s not true. How can I tell two grown men what to do? I do like graphics that can be read from across the street. The boldness echoes what we’re doing musically.

What distinguishes art from entertainment, and if they overlap, is there a difference in goals between the two?
I am aware of the show in what we do and even more so with Atomized. I like to think about the set as a unit of songs with very little let up. We have a kind of ‘Jacob’s Ladder’ approach to the show like in the film; our focus becomes narrowed to the job in hand.

Russell is very much into performance art. Does the minimalist drumming stem from the onstage presence of a guy hammering a drumkit with a slow rhythm like he was chopping wood or does his performance art experience exhibit itself in any other ways in the band?
It comes directly from playing with Test Dept on the ‘Doulton Fountain’, ‘Beltane Fire’ festivals and ‘The Second Coming’ shows which in themselves linked to playing with Pipe Bands again for me. The ‘Second Coming’ was a huge show set in the old St Rollox railway depot in Springburn in Glasgow employing full size trains and using steel wheels as percussion instruments. All our movements had to be huge to be seen. I don’t like to veer too much from the groove and over complex drum patterns bore me to tears. There is a powerful state of mind only achievable by sticking to the beat. I do have a picture of the prison work song in my head when I’m playing songs in that way.

The band has the prestige of being "At War With False Noise's” first vinyl release ("Paralyser"). For a label that normally performs DIY releases on CDRs, how did this come about and how does the band feel to have this accolade?
Al Mabon and At War With False Noise is a really forward‐looking combination. I think Al has a real enthusiasm for everything he releases and it’s important to have a label with someone who shares your passion. I’ve known Al for quite a long time and I think I may have played in his Tetsuo project in the early days before they became Seppuku. Al has a huge respect for the riff and is probably the most metal person I know. Noise links itself to metal and black/doom metal in particular I think because of the spirit they all embody. I’m not sure if we’re the first to have vinyl released on At War.. but that format made it really interesting for us in terms of recording and releasing in the analogue environment, the increased 12” sleeve design and poster insert.

"Paralyser" only has 3 tracks on it. Does the band consider this release to be an album, an EP or simply just a document of where the band was at that time?
‘Paralyser’ straddles a few bases due to the format of the songs and duration. It’s been interesting to see how the press have categorized it. ‘Paralyser’ has been with us for quite a long time since it’s most embryonic form. For some reason we never let it lie in terms of how it first came out. I made a few demo versions of it and continued to explore with the development of the programming that is contained in ‘…(Hammer the Nails)’. It progressed even more in the remix that became the ‘…(Dub)’ version. I think there was so much going on in the song for us that it retained our interest to write and record the main ‘…(Prison of the Cross)’ version which could actually be considered a live reworking of the earlier versions. To be a member of Black Sun is to accept that your musical ideas will be pummelled into the ground over a period of time to see if we still like them at the outcome. ‘Paralyser’ is one of those songs for us.

The 3 tracks are the same song but produced (remixed?) by different people such as the legendary Billy Anderson. This seems to be letting other people take control of the music. Was this a conscious decision to go for that or simply just trying out something different?
Both Duncan and Billy are excellent to work with. Both producers are very different and the way we worked with them very different as well. Billy worked from separated dry tracks recorded by Scott Walker in our studio in the centre of Glasgow and sent over to him in San Francisco at the time. Over a period of a couple of months we exchanged mixes and ideas over the Internet and because we’re both coming from a commonality of bands and artists we admire, the process was very enjoyable indeed. There was room for Billy to add in subtle ideas of his own and it’s always good to have an outside pair of ears and opinion as to how the song might sound. In working with Duncan we had the opportunity to record analogue reel to reel again and have the engineer with us in the same studio. Any adjustments required could be made there and then and the tape distortion was a real joy to behold in contrast to the digital domain where you have a very definite threshold. Duncan is very sensitive to the mix and what is required by the band and sound. Black Sun are an extremely hard working band and we were well practiced before we entered the studio so the recording had the benefit of what we wanted it to sound like rather than the sense of just getting through the session. When I made the dub remix I felt there was a certain return to mixing practice I used on Black Sun’s first Album ‘Fleshmarket’ additionally benefitting from four subsequent albums’ experience.

Album artwork and photography seem to be very important to you as a band. Who are your favourite artists in this area?
Finnish photographer Juha Arvid Helminen is pretty high on my list at the moment and I like the costume design of Leigh Bowery. Japanese Butoh dance company Sankai Juku have had a strong impact on me visually for many years and the costumes and make‐up of Noh theatre are directly channelled into Atomized.

Are any members of Black Sun involved in any other projects/bands?
Kevin has almost completed his studies in sound production and he’s recording quite a range of artists and music at the moment. He’s really getting into it and the demos for Black Sun’s new album are really promising. As we want to really push our boundaries in the recording side of the new album we will be taking the demo round Europe & the UK with us to secure serious investment in Black Sun and the album which must be recorded. Graeme is a semi professional Eight ball pool player.

What are the bands plans for 2009?
More, wider, louder, longer, further, higher, lower. Always forward. We have a few offers of tours still to be confirmed at the moment. If you want Black Sun in your town get in touch.

Of the last ten years of metal, what are the standouts to you? What about other genres what were the most influential and best works?
Kevin Hare: I'd say Taint, High On Fire, Isis, Akimbo, Minsk, Made Out Of Babies, and the reformation of the mighty 16. As far as other genres goes, you can't go wrong with Neil Young or Massive Attack.

What do you think of the Glasgow scene? Do you think a city's collective attitude determines what music will emerge?
Kevin: I think the Glasgow scene has so much potential, I like the fact that there's no one like us. It's always been a very unique place and as such you get a great cross section of heavy music, check out Throne Of Elvis, Co Exist or DeSavlon and you'll see what I mean.

What do you think of file sharing; has it helped or hindered the underground?
Graeme Leggate: I'd say it has not really had too much effect. Underground bands music tends not to be leaked en masse onto the net onto mainstream sites. I think in terms of underground bands, it is much harder to come by their material, so people will generally buy a lot of merchandise when those types of bands play shows. There is also a tendency to release a lot more limited edition items like 7" E.Ps that don't tend to be widely available on the net.

Kevin: If I like a band I’ll buy their album, I think it's shit not to. File sharing possibly lets people have a taster of a band, but let’s be honest it's not the same as holding that special purchase in your hands! A file on a computer means fuck all.

How important are communities like UK Metal Underground to bands such as yourself?
Kevin: I think it's paramount. Without support for the underground scene far too many bands wither and die, and that's the saddest thing.

Out of the UK scene at the moment, which bands have grabbed your attention as being particularly good?
Graeme: Definitely bands like They Are Cowards, Lazarus Blackstar, Atomized ;), Kylie Minoise

Kevin: I'd have to say probably Taint is the band that stands out for me the most. They've managed to capture everything I love about heavy music and still keep it fresh and exciting. Certainly you can't forget Ramesess, Stand Up Guy, They Are Cowards or Sontaran Experiment all beautifully punishing. I think many people forget the quality of what lies on their own doorstep and it should be supported more!

What is your opinion about today's mainstream metal scene?
Graeme: Pretty poor, there doesn't really seem to be any good bands breaking through the wave upon wave of haircut bands. Bands like Mastodon have enjoyed quite a bit of success, but have changed their sound from the earlier records.

Kevin: Quite simply it's a watered down cesspool of shite! Nothing's challenging or interesting anymore and that's a shame, it just seems to be a fashion statement for teenagers who don't like indie or dance, filled with so many uninventive clichés, bad haircuts and terribly re‐hashed 80's thrash riffs. It lacks the physicality, honesty and passion of the past. At least Slayer and Iron Maiden still deliver.

What would your ideal lifestyle be, if you were exempted from the problems of resource scarcity?
An excess of money wouldn’t solve our problems. It would provide a different set of challenges: how to spend it properly being the main one. I already live how I want to live and I don’t say that flippantly. Coming from a working class background you are meant to hate your job and live for weekends and holidays. It takes a lot of self‐belief to follow the path you have set yourself and to keep going when the road is hard.

What do you do to relax and have fun?
I don’t. Black Sun and Atomized are labours of love. There are 24 hours in a day. I got to sleep when my body shuts down and get up through the night to continue working. I like when there are fewer brainwaves interfering with mine. There is always something to be done; be it admin, press and gig booking or more fun things like album and merchandise design to storyboarding for promo video or lyric writing. I don’t separate any threads of what I’m doing from Black Sun.

What’s wrong with humanity?
We made our choices to be born into whatever environment that provided the greatest challenge for this turn of the wheel. To complain about our lives is hypocritical because we’re here because we want to be. Did you forget?

What is important for you in life?
Newer and greater challenges all the time. I set myself a higher bar and I might fail but I ask for the sun, the moon, and the stars. Most of the time I get the sun and the moon.

Any final words?
There is only Black Sun.

Date Venue

17 Apr 2009 Unearthly Trance / Ramesses / Black Sun GLASGOW
19 Apr 2009 Unearthly Trance / Ramesses / Black Sun LONDON
23 Apr 2009 Roadburn Festival TILBURG HOLLAND
25 Apr 2009 Roadburn Beyond the Pale TILBURG HOLLAND
1 May 2009 BLACK SUN @ Hinterland Festival Glasgow
2 May 2009 BLACK SUN @ Low Sonic Drift Launch Night GLASGOW
3 May 2009 BLACK SUN @ Damnation festival presents: Deathfest
5 May 2009 Black Sun / Saviours GLASGOW UK
10 Jul 2009 ATOMIZED @ Mach Nausea Festival 2009 Edinburgh UK
24 Jul 2009 ATOMIZED at Supersonic 2009, Birmingham UK
25 Jul 2009 SUPERSONIC Birmingham UK

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